flemmings: (Default)
flemmings ([personal profile] flemmings) wrote2009-04-11 10:35 pm
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Thoughts for a cold Saturday


1. Be warned, anyone thinking of reading 3K, that once begun you cannot stop. Chapter a day, or five chapters a day, or whatever, but don't let it drop because you'll never pick up the thread again.

Truly, there are just too many people to keep track of, and their relation to each other is likely to be unclear to a foreign reader. Noodling around in warrior bios I discover Zhang Miao and Chen Gong revolting against Cao Cao when he was away leading a campaign against Tao Qian. I'd just read that chapter with Tao Qian, and the two generals striking off on their own, but what was news to me, what wasn't mentioned anywhere that I could see, was that they were Cao Cao's men rebelling against their leader. Either I was supposed to remember from whenever Zhang Miao and Chen Gong were first introduced (probably in a passage like 'Cao Cao gave command of the first army to Zhang Miao, Yue Jin and Xiahou Dun, and backed by Zhang He, Chen Gong, and Zheng Hao, they rode out to join up with Shi Cuan, Yang Xin and Cai Yang') or I was just supposed to know that because Everyone Does. 3K needs an index ohhh sooo badly.

Dunno how this thing reads in Chinese but in English it's a dull flat narrative devoid of high style, stirring events, or any details one could use to remember who's who. No individualistic touches, no striking anecdotes, everyone and everything as bland as bland can be, interrupted by bland mass slaughter every few pages. Oh how I miss the Heike, who wrote poems and played flutes and revelled in their mono no aware. Aside from occasional typos (The Yellow Scares and their chronic rebellion) nothing here enlivens the slog. Wiki again gives me odd little anecdotes (like the one about Xiahou Dun) and I assume they come from the romance, but they haven't come yet.

2. Walking about the neighbourhood I discover someone has decorated the bare branches of their looks-to-be-a-plum tree with many colourful plastic easter eggs suspended from ribbon. All I could think of, natch, was Gou Jian's iconographic gall bladder.

3. Am reading John Ford's Casting Fortune and not enjoying it as much as I'd hoped. Nothing against the prose or the stories, except I suspect him of leaving out important details, that being some people's way of telling stories. But a number of people have mentioned him recently, since last Friday was his birthday. (He'd have been 52 if he hadn't died in '06.) And the people who mention him are mostly what someone recently called Guests of Honour: the big noises in SFF who perhaps don't realize they're no longer struggling young comrades whose silliness and irreverence creates a shared bond, but are now the Establishment, who look like prats if they're still doing the same stuff they did at 25. Whatever, the GoHs haven't been behaving very well this year; and they all have ljs, if they haven't deleted them, in which they act cronyish with other GoHs, and it's all a bit too pally-chummy for me, frankly. For overweight, Casting Fortune is set in Shetterley and Bull's Liaver universe, and a knee-jerk kimoi automatically comes with those names. My reading is thus dogged by a polite but determined sense of 'I would prefer not.'

(Yes, of course I judge people by who they hang out with, or hung out with, whichever. That was common sense from the Greeks through the 60s. I don't know where they came up with this 'Don't judge me by my friends' thing. You choose your friends as you choose your clothing style and hygiene habits, and what you choose says something about you. I may hope these people chose Ford and he was nice enough to accommodate them, not the other way round.)

4. Am being nagged at by Gou Jian and Fu Chai wanting me to tell their story. The trouble is that there are two stories to tell. The one I like goes off into the starry blue yonder of Didn't happen, couldn't have happened, isn't even close to what happened. The other one contains the Woxin characters. I'm not allowed to have both, that option clearly being reserved for geniuses. What to do, what to do?

[identity profile] i-am-zan.livejournal.com 2009-04-12 12:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I am intrigued by No.4 and ... whichever comes out ...I am sure will be the right one!!!

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2009-04-12 03:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I had it quite clear last night before I went to sleep. You know what happens with plots like that-- they vnish like ghosts in the sunshine.

[identity profile] lebateleur.livejournal.com 2009-04-12 01:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Re: 1. YES. I make periodic attempts to get through the dratted thing every few years but nothing's ever come of it. It's the sort of book where you either run your eyes over the text to say "Yes, I've read it" without technically lying, or you actually read the thing properly while you're fired for truancy and your health and sanity deteriorate.

I'm convinced it's the Last of the Mohicans of the Chinese classics.

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2009-04-12 03:01 pm (UTC)(link)
And your family begs for coins in the street.

See, here's where you may be right about LotM, a book I've never read and never would read but still know about because there was a TV series ohhh so loosely based on it when I was a kid, to say nothing of the Classics Comic. So you're a kid in China and the street storyteller tells you young'uns all this great stuff about the three brothers and their oath in the Peach Garden, and you get older and there's this mention in the poetry you gotta read for highschool about the burning of Cao Cao's boats, and your dad takes you to the opera and it's the one about the rivalry between Zhou Yu and Zhuge Liang, and on and on. So when you come to skim over Romance, you already know the highpoints from the many cultural reworkings, and the rest is just filler.

Mind, there's an /awful/ lot of filler. I suppose this is why god made manga.

[identity profile] mvrdrk.livejournal.com 2009-04-13 07:01 am (UTC)(link)
Yes! I gave up and just read someone else's summaries. And eventually stopped reading the summaries, too, much to my shame. I am going to try it again this summer, I think.

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2009-04-13 11:21 am (UTC)(link)
Where are the summaries on librarything? Or do you have to log in to see them?

[identity profile] mvrdrk.livejournal.com 2009-04-13 04:18 pm (UTC)(link)
No log in required.
http://www.librarything.com/topic/18182
incandescens: (Default)

[personal profile] incandescens 2009-04-12 03:27 pm (UTC)(link)
John M Ford used to have links with role-playing writing, too, and would often post on the Steve Jackson Games forums, always with different neat .sig tags. At the time, either I hadn't discovered him or I was too abashed to try to talk to him.

I do sometimes wonder whether I would have found out something which spoiled my liking for his work, or whether he would have been cool. I don't know.

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2009-04-12 03:33 pm (UTC)(link)
There may be a certain 'saved from the evil to come' aspect to this. But since it's a moot question anyway, perhaps one can take the line that, as The Last Good Time is quantumly better than Bordertown, and Casting Fortune is quantumly better than Liaver (if quantumly is a word-- I mean, does it better and does it in a different dimension entirely) so Ford may have been sui generis different from the people he hung out with.
incandescens: (Default)

[personal profile] incandescens 2009-04-12 03:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I certainly reread his books more than theirs.

(Was digging up a poem from one of them for last night, and spent more time than I should have being distracted by other short stories of his. Ahem.)

[identity profile] paleaswater.livejournal.com 2009-04-19 02:19 am (UTC)(link)
The thing with 3K is that all Chinese kids just kind of absorb the stories and the individual episodes either via one of these radio serials, or these illustrated picture books, so by the time they get around to reading the novel it's just linking up the episodes and putting everyone in place. Reasonable number even dispense with the novel. I can't imagine reading it without all that.

Though stylistically I don't remember it being very dry -- about as interesting as any other of the historical romances. Not as sophisticated as Dream of Red Chambers, but quite readable. For dry try ploughing through the Record of Three Kingdoms.

I'll tell you what helps -- there are these sets of traditional comics, they're called 连环画, and each page consist of one illustration with a few sentences, and in about a hundred pages it gives an outline of an episode, usually in the original writer's words with a little editing. And somehow after reading 3k this way you just never forget the characters again. Let me see if they're scanned anywhere online.

[identity profile] paleaswater.livejournal.com 2009-04-19 02:33 am (UTC)(link)
Here's a link to one site. It's the only one I found where you can download it episode by episode instead of in one huge file, so you can see what it's like first.

http://www.go2hn.com/lianhuanhua/go2hn-sgyy1.html

Links down around the middle of page. Search for 下载第一册.

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2009-04-19 03:10 am (UTC)(link)
According to my DL box, one ep will take 40 minutes. How big *are* these things?

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2009-04-19 03:17 am (UTC)(link)
Do you know, the idea of wading through pages and pages of 3K hanzi somehow fails to fill me with delighted expectation? Thank you for the thought, but I think I'll stick to kareny, where there's some return for my labour and flailing about with unfamiliar grammatical constructions.

Thing is, in English, or at least in Moss Robertson's English, the Romance reads almost as if it /was/ the Records. 'This is a novel?' I keep saying to myself. Even Water Margin is more entertaining.

[identity profile] paleaswater.livejournal.com 2009-04-21 05:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Isn't there some more entertaining way of reading this stuff? There's a very creditable cctv serialization, which I think might be available in Japanese. And surely the japanese have produced a reasonable faithful version of it in a less painful medium?

[identity profile] flemmings.livejournal.com 2009-04-21 10:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, you know me and visual media. CCTV serials are not going to happen, barring the presence of Uncle Ming. No, a chapter a day in English does me just fine. It really *is* easier than wading through manga with fat bearded men. As a plus, my Japanese prose reading keeps touching on the 3K personages, so I get hanzi reinforcement that way. If I get bogged down in book 2 or so, maybe I'll start scouting out the Japanese translation of 火鳳燎原 (http://www.bk1.jp/product/02605184); otherwise...
Edited 2009-04-21 22:54 (UTC)